The Facts On Indiana’s New Law, And Wiping The Slate Clean *Open Thread* *Upated*


Update at the end of the post.

Oh, boy – the media and the left are just having a FIELD day on Indiana’s new law. The only problem is, what the media is reporting isn’t exactly what the law SAYS. Facts seem to be in VERY short supply these days when it comes to matters like this. It is a law that exists in 19 other states AND Federally. But since it is in Indiana, everyone is FREAKING out. Well, those who are misinformed are freaking out, that is.

Here are some facts, courtesy of The Federalist:

This past week, journalistic abuse has exploded into controversy over an innocuous religious freedom law in Indiana. This law, known as a Religious Freedom Restoration Act or RFRA (pronounced “riff-ra”), tracks the language of the 1993 federal RFRA signed into law by President Clinton after a 97-3 vote in the Senate. But you would not necessarily know how innocuous it is from news media coverage. According to what you might hear in the news, this is an anti-gay law that is “almost universally loathed,” and which a White House official suggested would “legitimize discrimination.”

Indiana’s RFRA has none of these characteristics.


This legislation sets the same minimum standard for burdening the exercise of religion. Under the various RFRAs, a state or the federal government—by law or other action—may not substantially burden an individual’s exercise of religion unless the burden is in furtherance of a compelling government interest and is the least restrictive means of furthering that interest. Twenty states, including Indiana, and the federal government have RFRAs.

Wow, really? Because you sure aren’t getting that information from the MSM. Heck, even some of my Libertarian friends bought the BS the MSM was spewing on this by posting the following photo with the prescription for Indiana to wise up:

Indiana Law

Well, if people are so opposed to this, Indiana needs to wise up as much as, say ILLINOIS, does, as the Federalist continues:

[…] The fear is that it could be used to deny service to gay people in places of public accommodation like businesses and restaurants. But, as discussed above, no RFRA has ever been used that way before. Also, Indiana does not have a public accommodation law that protects against anti-gay discrimination, meaning there’s no state law in Indiana preventing anti-gay discrimination in businesses even before the state RFRA was enacted. Notably, despite the lack of such a law, nobody can point to any Indiana businesses that were discriminating against gays.

That’s what makes this an informed attribute. Gay marriage is on many people’s minds lately, for obvious reasons. In truth, though, Indiana is merely catching-up to states that have had RFRAs for decades—like Illinois, for example, which got its RFRA with the help of a young state senator named Barack Obama. Unfortunately, Indiana is now caught in the cultural cross-fire.

Do Religious Freedom Protections Hurt Gays?

It is entirely consistent to favor broad religious freedom protections and also favor gay rights. Many gays are religious, and so themselves benefit from religious freedom protections like RFRA. But even where gay Americans and religious Americans find themselves in conflict, there is ample room in communities to peaceably coexist. That’s the point of a RFRA. No side gets an automatic-victory card. The interests of all sides gets weighed.

What Do We Do Now?

If you’ve made it this far, you know more about RFRAs and the Indiana situation than the average news consumer. Share your knowledge. It’s the only way to beat the swarms of aggrieved news consumers who don’t know any better than what they’ve seen in the papers.

The only way to push back against the informed attribute in this instance is to point to the actual attributes of the law. Before Indiana, RFRAs existed for over 20 years in 19 states and the federal government. There has been no parade of horribles. They are a shield, not a sword. And their object is religious freedom, not anti-gay discrimination. (Click here to read the rest of this informative piece.)

While on with George Stephanopoulos, Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana, while George continued with the usual rhetoric, asked: “(I)s tolerance a two-way street or not?”

I know what I think the answer to that question is, and I’d love to hear what you think on this.

But before that, I want to mention one slate, or hard drive, that has been wiped clean. That, of course, would be Hillary Clinton’s server But the big deal is that she apparently wiped it clean AFTER her emails were subpoenaed. That left RNC Chair, Reince Priebus to query if this wasn’t illegal. From The Hill:

[…] “I mean this is intentional behavior, which in many cases, Steve, is criminal in nature,” Priebus said. “I mean, you cannot just destroy documents when an agency is telling you to turn them over.”

Clinton says that she handed over emails that had anything to do with government business and then deleted the rest. She has charecterized the deleted emails as personal in nature — ranging from communications about her ailing mother to messages about her daughter’s wedding.

On Friday, Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), who is chairing a committee investigating the Benghazi attacks, said that Clinton “decided to wipe her server clean and permanently delete all emails from her personal server.”

That prompted a quick rebuke from Priebus.

“Even Nixon didn’t destroy the tapes,” Priebus said in a statement on Saturday. […] (Click here to read the rest.)

No kidding about Nixon. Frankly, I don’t see how this isn’t criminal in nature, but I am guessing that would require action by AG Holder against Clinton. I am not holding my breath for THAT to happen.

But Americans are paying attention to this scandal, and it is affecting the way Clinton is perceived, as well it should. Maybe that Teflon is finally getting scratched off. I reckon we’ll have to see about that.

There is lots more going on in the news today. Feel free to discuss any of the above, or some of the other issues facing us, like the Iran talks, how they impact Israel (Netanyahu is being proved right), and more. This is an Open Thread.

UPDATE: has a good article on this whole Indiana law with this interesting information about the realities of this new law:

[…] Another 11 states have judicial precedents that constitute a RFRA policy in their courts. Over the last twenty-plus years, RFRA statutes have a clear track record of careful jurisprudence, because they don’t protect ad-hoc discrimination on any basis. That’s true on both federal and state levels, and we know this in part because the hysterics shrieking over the law in Indiana offer nothing but ignorant hypotheticals. They cannot point to a case where RFRA has been used to justify broad discrimination, because it never has.

Cases decided under RFRA get strict scrutiny on three tests. First, the religious belief has to be sincerely held, and not just a pose to make a point. Second, the state interest in overriding the religious belief has to be compelling. Last, the action taken by the state has to be the least intrusive that still satisfies the compelling state interest. Courts have been using these tests for more than two decades to separate real cases of state infringement on religious practice from simple discrimination. The Hobby Lobby decision is one such case; the Obama administration lost that case because the Supreme Court noted that even HHS had to admit it didn’t use the least intrusive method available to them, and largely punted on the issue of whether the contraception mandate intruded on sincerely-held religious belief. […] (Click here to read the rest.)

If there was any confusion about how this law may be utilized, I hope this makes it clearer.

I might add, I have ZERO connection to Indiana. But facts matter, and I am tired of them being cast aside for ratchet emotionalism and outcry based on nothing more than rumor, misunderstanding, and innuendo.


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32 Responses to “The Facts On Indiana’s New Law, And Wiping The Slate Clean *Open Thread* *Upated*”

  1. kenoshamarge Says:

    What is happening about the law in Indiana is exactly what the left always does, lie and deceive. They do that and once again everyone who doesn’t see things their way is anti-gay, racist, homophobic and whatever other ist or phobia they can attach to their lie.

    You have to wonder how long before ordinary Americans, people who work for a living and have to worry about putting a roof over their family’s head and food on the table, get sick and tired of all this fauxrage.

    I am not only sick and tired of the “fauxrage” but sick and tired of the deception. If only we had a MSM that actually reported the facts. Wouldn’t that be loverly?

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      You said it, Marge. Once again, it is the MSM that is ginning this up, I guess all of the outrage abt Bergdahl was getting too close to the President and the Dems, so they had to find something else abt which to be OUTRAGED. Never mind that Obama voted for a similar bill in Illinois, or Pres. Clinton signing it for the Nation – that doesn’t matter. It is ANTI-GAY!! Mike Pence HATES GAY PEOPLE! The NCAA must take its Final Four elsewhere!

      Sigh. It is just exhausting, isn’t it? The sheer lack of information informing so many of these protestors is just astonishing, and from people who should KNOW better. That’s what gets me.

      Really, I think this kind of thing is going to cause a backlash against the, “Our Way or We Destroy You!” mindset we are seeing so much of these days.

      • kenoshamarge Says:

        I think you’re right – I believe there is a backlash coming against the dishonest MSM and the Dems who cry wolf – when there isn’t a wolf in sight.

        • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

          It just amazes me to see friends who are normally more even keeled jumping on this Hate Indiana bandwagon without looking at the facts. To me, this destroying someone personally, forcing them out of business, is just hateful. It is bullying taken to a HUGE extreme. They want their way, and they are going to do whatever they have to in order to get it. All thanks to this Obliteration Politics we seem to be subjected to now. I am sick of it. Heck, if someone doesn’t want to bake me a cake because of my sexual orientation, I will simply take my business ELSEWHERE. Why would I want to give them my money anyway? But even that example is playing into the hands of the leftists who are trying to make this ALL abt gay marriage, when it is not.

    • foxyladi14 Says:

      Yes!! Well said Marge. 🙂

  2. kenoshamarge Says:

    And speaking of the MSM Katie Pavlich reports on a lawsuit against NBC. Doubtful this will go anywhere since the courts seem reluctant to hold media responsible for their irresponsible or dishonest reporting.

    NBC Sued For Libel And Slander After Comparing Tannerite Target Company to Terrorists, Killing Americans

    Last week NBC reporter Jeff Rossen aired a report on The Today Show and claiming the company Tannerite, a small business that sells rifle targets, is a threat to national security and that “bombs” are for sale at your local sporting goods store. Rossen added to the drama by telling Twitter followers he was in intense pain ahead of the air date, but implied he was sucking it up because the report was just too important.

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      It may not go anywhere, but oh, my – dontcha just love it? They SO deserve this after all the BS they have spewed. I am just surprised they haven’t been sued by bigger companies/people.

  3. kenoshamarge Says:

    And here’s a “hell yeah” cartoon for ya…

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      Oh, wow – wouldn’t it be nice if these people actually got their comeuppance?? That would be a dream come true.

  4. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    IJ Review also has a good piece on this whole Indiana law brouhaha:

  5. piper Says:

    2008 really woke me up especially when Hillary defected to the obama camp and Bill campaigned for him. Without Bill’s assistance and charisma, McCain would have been probably elected saving us from a world of bad policies. I see McCain for who and what he is, not a messiah or light bringer just someone who loves / respect our country.
    2008 was the year I renounced my affiliation in the Dem-o-Rat party only voting for one dem, Sheriff David Clarke, since then.

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      Right there with you, Piper. Yep – 2008 was a major eye-opener for me, and since then, all of the red flags I had held at arm’s length were impossible not to see anymore. Truly disturbing to me, especially to see the continued behavior of the DNC and how much worse it has gotten over the past 7 yrs. Deplorable.

      Well, Sheriff Clarke is a Dem I could vote for, too. He dos not seem beholden to ANYONE, and speaks his mind, which I appreciate. 🙂

    • foxyladi14 Says:

      Agree Piper. 😀

  6. kenoshamarge Says:

    Obama Honors the Dishonorable Ted Kennedy

    by Keith Koffler @ White House Dossier

    President Obama, first lady Michelle Obama, and Vice President Biden too all slipped out of town today to honor the late Sen. Edward Kennedy.

    They’ll be at the opening of something called The Edward M. Kennedy Institute in Boston. Don’t know what it is and don’t care. Maybe it’s devoted to the study of political leadership by functioning alcoholics.

    It has long been interesting to me that the Democrats’ two most exalted leaders of the past half century, Kennedy and Bill Clinton, have been serial abusers of women.

    I agree with Koffler 100%! Even when I was still a Democrat I had absolutely no use for Kennedy. I believed then and believe no that he should have gone to jail for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne.

    It just boggles my mind that Dems have the chutzpah to accuse the GOP of a “war on women” with these two sleeze bags so popular with their party. Women on the left are dumber than dirt to accept these two men as “Stars” in their party. Ugh!

  7. foxyladi14 Says:

    Barf!!! 👿

  8. mcnorman Says:

    Just when you think it can’t get any worse?

    • mcnorman Says:

      But now she says that the twitter account was hacked. Yup, sure.

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      It’s taken me years to understand that with the despicable people on the left it can always get worse. This stupid female said something repugnant to any decent person and then she was stupid enough to put it on twitter.

      Only fools like her will be impressed by such hyperbole.

  9. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    And more hypocrisy from Democrats, this time the Governor of CT abt Indiana:

  10. kenoshamarge Says:

    John Hawkins asks a good question.

    If Liberals Are The Good Guys, Why Do They Lie So Much?

    If you listen to liberals, you’d believe that conservatives are hateful, racist, cruel, selfish dishonest, mean-spirited Fascists while liberals are compassionate, caring, open minded, honest, giving saints who want the best for everyone.

    If that’s true, then why is it that liberals have to incessantly lie about what they’re doing, what’s happening in the world and about conservatives?

  11. kenoshamarge Says:

    First off, why isn’t his “Historic” place in the Senate mentioned by the ever hysterical Historical left? Just wondering.

    Second, if fools like Dana Bash did their homework they would know:

    While at Princeton, Ted Cruz competed for the American Whig-Cliosophic Society’s Debate Panel and won the top speaker award at both the 1992 U.S. National Debating Championship and the 1992 North American Debating Championship.[

    In 1992, he was named U.S. National Speaker of the Year, as well as Team of the Year, with his debate partner, David Panton.[

    Cruz was a semi-finalist at the 1995 World Universities Debating Championship, making him Princeton’s highest-ranked debater at the championship. Princeton’s debate team later named their annual novice championship after Cruz.

    So perhaps Bash didn’t know the meat grinder she was walking into. A “real” reporter would have.

    CNN’s Dana Bash Tries to Take Out Ted Cruz, Fails Miserably

    Please, somebody, help me, I can’t stop laughing. Bash tried to smack Cruz around by comparing him to Obama (funny, she didn’t have a problem with the current president having no executive or much political experience when he ran for the White House in 2008), hoping it would silence and embarrass the senator from Texas.

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      Ohmygosh, that is funny! I mean, really – did she not see that Cruz doesn’t require a teleprompter to be able to speak? That he is incredibly articulate?

      And what’s with the put down on HIS time in office when yeah, these same people were allf or the Community Organizer with no experience in the White House? You gotta love when these nincompoops get their comeuppance, huh?

      • kenoshamarge Says:

        What trips fools like Bash up is the fact that they’ve lied so much for so long that they don’t know the truth. Nor do they try to discover the truth. In Bash’s one dimensional little world Obama and Cruz are/were both first term Senators thus they were the same.

        In Bash’s little world the left said Obama was really smart. In the real world Ted Cruz actually is smart.

        You can’t even feel sorry for the nincompoop since she chose willful ignorance.

        • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

          Good point, Marge – heck, most of these people wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked them in the face. If it differs from their own entrenched ideology, it just HAS to be a lie, wrong, false, and must be destroyed!

          LOL abt Cruz v. Obama – spot on!!

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