I’m Sorry, The IRS Is Doing WHAT, Exactly?? *Open Thread*


I suppose after the revelation that the IRS was targeting groups, both political and religious, with whom this Administration had issues, I should not be surprised by this latest news. I mean, really – that was bad enough, and should have resulted in a host of heads rolling, though that seems to have been a pipe dream.

But now, according to this National Review article, the IRS seems to be in cahoots with Atheist groups to keep a watch on churches. Oh, how I wish I was kidding about this. From the National Review:

It was bad enough, as I wrote here last August, that the Internal Revenue Service appeared to reach an agreement to monitor the pulpits of ill-favored churches. What’s worse is that the IRS, directly counter to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requirements, steadfastly has refused to make public key documents pertaining to that decision.

So the IRS, acting with the whole power of government behind it, seems to be saying it can monitor and presumably punish churches for the content of their sermons, but the churches can’t know exactly if, how, and why they are being monitored. (RELATED: The House Takes On IRS Lawlessness)

To fight this combined assault on religious liberty and on government transparency, conservative legal stalwarts Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) and Judicial Watch together filed suit April 9 to force release of the IRS documents. ADF asserts that the IRS already has shared the documents with the atheist Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF). Once again, the IRS bends over backwards on behalf of leftists while harassing and ignoring the rights, on multiple levels, of conservative groups or faith communities.

And if the IRS continues to flout FOIA, we ought to treat its obstinacy as a major scandal. Then again, the IRS’s connivance with FFRF is itself a scandalous and deliberate trampling of our founding freedom of religious exercise and expression, guaranteed by the First Amendment.

I have read the First Amendment a bunch of times. It is not at all unclear on its intent:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now, I am no Constitutional Law attorney, but is that not glaringly obvious? Seems clear to me. So why is the IRS targeting these churches in the first place, much less while in cahoots with ATHEIST groups?

And let’s just be clear on one major point here: atheism IS a religious choice. So for the IRS to join forces with atheists is choosing sides in a BIG way, and they are doing it in a most deplorable manner.

You may wonder how all this came to be in the first place. I bet you could guess, but here is how it all began:

The controversy arose when FFRF sued the IRS to force it to monitor churches (the IRS apparently monitored at least 99 churches) for alleged lack of compliance with rules against express electioneering by nonprofit organizations. As executive agencies under Barack Obama so often have done, the IRS reached a friendly settlement to dismiss the suit. FFRF was so pleased with the settlement that it claimed, in a headline: “Anti-church electioneering victory is final.” FFRF described how it achieved its “major victory”:

FFRF agreed to voluntarily dismiss its closely watched federal lawsuit against the IRS after being given evidence that the IRS has authorized procedures and “signature authority” to resume initiating church tax investigations and examinations.

The ADF, on behalf of threatened churches, merely demanded through FOIA that the IRS share that same “evidence” with it, including details about the new “procedures.” Pretty basic stuff. Not only does the public in general have the right to know the basis for and substance of a federal agency’s procedures, but the parties directly affected (or targeted) by those procedures, as per a legal settlement, are especially entitled to that information. That’s the law. It’s also Common Sense 101.


And the IRS now has violated even the latest deadline it set for itself, after its first illegal extension, without even bothering to give further notice that it is doing so.

Because that is how they roll, dontcha know. As the author, Hillyer, pointed out in the article, the IRS is a LOT less understanding when regular old American citizens miss their deadlines with the IRS. More “Do as I say, not as I do!” mentality from this agency under Obama.

But it is even worse, more insidious, and unconstitutional than that:

Completely apart from the administrative law-breaking, it is that First Amendment right that remains the nub of the underlying case. The public has been bombarded in recent weeks with stories of battles about the limits of private expressions of faith in the business world. What the IRS apparently is doing, at the atheist group’s request, attacks faith at an even more fundamental level than that: inside the churches’ own doors, at their very pulpits.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1808, “I consider the government of the U.S. as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, disciplines, or exercises.”

Surely, if a government agency is monitoring religious institutions in a way that could lead to such intermeddling, the public deserves an explanation of how, why, when, and where such monitoring is taking place. But this is Obama’s IRS. It seems to think it answers to nobody. The courts must disabuse it of that virtually criminal notion, with every power at the courts’ disposal. (Click here to read the rest.)

Without a doubt the courts must step in and protect the fundamental, Constitutional, rights of churches to not be subjected to this kind of corrupt monitoring by churches of the most powerful of government agencies while working in service to one particular religious group. This must be stopped. Churches need to cry out from the highest rafters about this latest abuse directed at Christians in this country by our government.

I seem to recall that this country was founded in no small part on religious freedom. It is past time for our government and its agencies to bear that in mind.

At least that’s what I think. How about you? This is an Open Thread.


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37 Responses to “I’m Sorry, The IRS Is Doing WHAT, Exactly?? *Open Thread*”

  1. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    And on this topic, it seems Obama has not bothered to fill a very important State Department post that is designed SPCIFICALLY to help religious minorities in other countries: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-urged-to-act-as-slaughter-of-christians-escalates/article/2563312

    This quote from the article says it all: On Easter, Pope Francis expressed deep concern that the international community is standing “mute and inert in the face of such unacceptable crimes.” At a Good Friday procession, he also decried the world’s “complicit silence” while Christians are being killed in an international jihad that spans the Middle East, Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, Europe and the United States.

    NO KIDDING. It is appalling that Obama has not only kept quiet abt these slaughters, but has refused to do anything to HELP either, despite this position being available. GRRRRRR.

  2. kenoshamarge Says:

    It never seems to amaze me that people don’t seem to care about the corrupt behavior of the IRS. The IRS impacts ALL of us. Are the people who don’t care so corrupt that they don’t care about government corruption as long as it benefits their ideology. That’s disgusting.

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      That is supposed to read: “ceases to amaze” me not “seems to amaze me”. Can’t even use the not enough coffee excuse.

      • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

        I knew exactly what you meant, Marge! And it never ceases to amaze me, either. That people are so partisan, so blind, that they would rather a powerful agency like this go after citizens and churches with glee because they see them as their political “ENEMIES” is astonishing. What have they wrought in our country?!

        • kenoshamarge Says:

          I was as outraged by the “overreach” of the Bush Administration as I am by the Obama Administration. And the Bush corruption couldn’t hold a candle to what is happening to day.

          If you would have told me that I would prefer the Bush years to a time when a Democrat sat in the White House when Bush was in office I would have thought you had lost your mind.

          I would never have believed that Democrats would not protect first amendment rights either. Evidently once you allow your ideology to take over your thinking you don’t care about freedom and ethics and honesty. And this is so repulsive to me that I can barely stand to look at a Democrat these days.

          Especially the female candidate from the left:

          • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

            EXACTLY, Marge – now when I look back on Bush’s reign. remembering the anger and angst under which I labored then, it does not compare to what Obama and the Democrats are doing now. The same things abt which Democrats screamed their bloody heads off then are happening now with Obama and they DEFEND him while attacking anyone who doesn’t agree with him. It is just astonishing. WOW.

            Oh, another good one – I swear, thank heavens for humor or how else would we stay (relatively) sane??

  3. foxyladi14 Says:

    Windy today. 😆

  4. kenoshamarge Says:

    Here’s some good news for those of us who are Scott Walker fans. Maybe all the “big” money isn’t going to Jeb Bush.

    David Koch Signals a Favorite: Scott Walker


  5. foxyladi14 Says:

    Sad but true, And that is here now!!! 👿

  6. foxyladi14 Says:

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      Just the sort of nonsense you’d expect from a pinhead that wore tampon earrings on national television.

      She also seems to not bother to pay her taxes either. What hypocrites and liars these MSNBC liberals turn out to be.

      • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

        NO kidding. Can you believe that she and her husband have a $70k lien against them?? That speaks volumes.

        And Foxy, great, if incredibly troubling, point. That is exactly what they seem to be doing…

  7. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Heck, even Kirsten Powers is calling out Obama on ignoring the plight of Christians worldwide, naming specifically the press conference he had with the Italian PM last week: http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/04/21/christians-religious-persecution-migrant-ship-italy-column/26083829/

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      One of the about 2% of the times I agree with Kirsten Powers.

      Some things she seems to see so clearly while the rest of the time her vision is blinded by the fact she has her head up her… posterior.

      • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

        I know what you mean – once in a while she comes out with things that make me go, “Wow, Kirsten – great point!” Most of the time, it is, “Wow, Kirsten, can’t believe you are regurgitating that talking point!”

  8. kenoshamarge Says:

    John Hawkins points out the differences in the vision left and right has for the poor. Funny how different the right’s version is from what the left “says” it is. Their rhetoric is always the same be it about the poor, immigration, race and gender. Them evil people on the right hate ya’ll. And far to many on the left are willing to believe such nonsense.

    The Liberal Vision For The Poor Vs. The Conservative Vision For The Poor

    When liberals look at the poor, first and foremost, they see people who will vote for them in exchange for goodies. This gives liberals a perverse incentive to keep as many Americans mired in poverty as humanly possible.

    This is why liberals are always willing to make a government handout a little bigger, easier to qualify for, or to make sure as many people as possible are using it. They want poor people to remain poor – and no wonder. Show me a ghetto in America and I will show you an area that votes heavily Democrat despite the fact that its condition never seems to improve.


  9. kenoshamarge Says:

    Meanwhile, Hillary on the campaign trail:

  10. kenoshamarge Says:

    Someone with a lot of time on their hands had some fun with Hillary’s logo.

  11. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Seems Sen. Joe Manchin of WVA is endorsing Hillary already. Whatever respect I had for him has gone. Just another typical Dem, it seems. Sheesh.

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      Manchin likes to pretend he’s a different kind of Dem. But when it comes down to it he gets in line just like most of the others.

  12. kenoshamarge Says:

    Who with any pride or sense of decency would be a spokesweasel? Who with any pride or decency could mouth such claptrap?

    File this latest nonsense from Ernst under “are you frakkin kidding me”? What possible “deal” can be made while these thugs hold our people prisoner?

    The price of Obama’s “legacy” is way too high on so many levels.

    Earnest: Iran Has Already ‘Suffered’ for Holding U.S. Hostages Because They Don’t Get to Be as Cozy with Washington


    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      Now I see why people were pushing so hard to make pot legal in DC – clearly, Earnest has been indulging in WAY too much of it. Either that or he needs to put down the crack pipe. What an absolutely idiotic, obscene, comment to make. WTH is wrong with him? IRAN IS A SPONSOR OF TERRORISM – they should not be ALLOWED to be cozy with Washington! WOW.

  13. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Sharyl Attkisson has published Part 2 of her California Obamacare piece: http://sharylattkisson.com/obamacare-official-in-california-avoid-using-public-email/

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      Let’s see how this goes, Covered California hires a law firm, a friendly to them one no doubt, to investigate Aiden Hill’s charges. They find nothing. Well here’s a big surprise.

      It is depressing how we see evidence of government corruption nearly every day and it goes little noticed. Media won’t cover any story about Dem corruption unless it becomes to blatant they haven’t no choice. And then there is a very real chance that they will blame George Bush.

      Citizens seems to find corruption fine and dandy so long as the corruption supports their ideology. And that’s the slippery slope to hell. Others don’t bother to unhook their minds from their “devices” long enough to see what is happening in the real world as opposed to the “cyber” world where they spend most of their waking moments.

      • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

        It amazes me, Marge – it is just hard to see how easily people throw off right from wrong, justice, doing the right thing, ethics, and morality. It is just astonishing…

  14. HELENK3 Says:

    Happy Earth Day

  15. HELENK3 Says:


    blueprint of isis

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