Who Needs Principles, And While We Were Focused Elsewhere *Open Thread*


Honestly, I have struggled with about what I wanted to write today. I am just so disgusted and dismayed by what I am seeing on the news, it is truly difficult to feel motivated to write about what is going on in our  nation right now. UGH.

Specifically this morning, my big problem is this: as the rise of Trump continues, mind boggling as it is to many of us, people with principles are being told to cast them aside, which is frightening in the first place, never mind being told to do so for a man who isn’t even decent, honorable, intelligent, honest, or sane. How the hell can that be?? I admit, I have to resist the urge to just shake my head in despair at that this nation has become. Truly. How the hell did we get to a place in this nation where a man like Trump is the presumptive nominee, a liberal* who is flip flopping on the statements he has made* throughout the campaign, and for whom his minions are demanding fealty? (* Courtesy of Facebook friend.)

I’m not kidding. From Tucker Carlson to Eric Bolling to this Trump sycophant (David Wohl), who tries to go up against the FAR smarter Brad Thor, this demand to become Trump – unprincipled – is the new GOP Motto, apparently :


Can you believe that Wohl guy?? Of course you can. He is just like every other Trump sycophant on tee-vee these days. We are all supposed to ignore the bullying, misogyny, rampant lies, ad hominem attacks, juvenile speech and language, liberal history, liberal monetary support, and on and on and on I could go. That anyone would ask of anyone else to give up their principles in the FIRST place is abhorrent, but ESPECIALLY in submission to a man like Trump is so far beyond the pale that they lose all credibility. At least in my opinion, that is.


And speaking of a lack of credibility or principles, guess what the Government did while we were being distracted by whatever issue du jour the media was pushing? That would be the US Government manipulating reality to declare itself a SMALL BUSINESS to get Obamacare subsidies. I am not kidding you. From the Daily Signal:

[…] Rushing to enact the giant Obamacare bill in March 2010, Congress voted itself out of its own employer-sponsored health insurance coverage—the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program.

Section 1312(d)(3)(D) required members of Congress and staff to enroll in the new health insurance exchange system. But in pulling out of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, they also cut themselves off from their employer-based insurance contributions.

(It should be noted that, before final passage, Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, offered an amendment that would have provided Federal Employees Health Benefits Program subsidies for congressional enrollees in Obamacare, but Senate Democrats defeated it on a procedural vote, 56-43.)

Obamacare’s insurance subsidies for ordinary Americans are generous, but capped by income. No one with an annual income over $47,080 gets a subsidy. That’s well below typical Capitol Hill salaries. Members of Congress make $174,000 annually, and many on their staff have impressive, upper-middle-class paychecks.

Maybe the lawmakers didn’t understand what they were doing, but The New York Times’ perspicacious Robert Pear certainly did.

On April 12, 2010, Pear wryly wrote, “If they did not know exactly what they were doing to themselves, did lawmakers who wrote and passed the bill fully grasp the details of how it would influence the lives of other Americans?” […] (Click here to read the rest.)

Uh, yeah. Sweet deal, huh?? And you know who is paying for all of this, of course: US. Yep. Thanks, Democrats. Again.

Oh, and in answer to Pear’s question, I think they didn’t give a damn how it was going to “influence the lives of other Americans,” just like they didn’t care about disrupting the healthcare of 320 million Americans for 10 million Americans. Nope, didn’t give a damn about that one bit, evidenced by their not even reading the freakin’ thing first.

Ahem. Clearly my language is deteriorating as the morning goes along. Sorry. I am just beyond disgusted with both parties at this point. And I am exceedingly worried about what is happening to our Republic. Hell, I still cannot believe people are taking Trump at all seriously, just like the incredibly inexperienced Obama. Both of them should have been booted off the stage at the first debate, and somehow, Obama became President – twice, and Trump is on the verge of being the Republican nominee no matter all of the liberal positions he CURRENTLY holds, like single payer insurance, raising taxes, and more. Something has happened to Republicans to make them become Democrats with the wave of an orange wand, and here we are:


That says it all, especially since Trump flat out SAID he doesn’t need no stinkin’ unity, and yet Republicans continue to support him.

Good heavens…

Okay, this is all I can stomach for now. Feel free to talk about whatever is on your minds, friends. This is an Open Thread.


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44 Responses to “Who Needs Principles, And While We Were Focused Elsewhere *Open Thread*”

  1. piper Says:

    I’m with you so I’ve been searching for a bit of humor to help with the craziness so here’s Maxine solution.

  2. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Oh, please. Note the use of the phrase, “talking points”: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279649-trumps-talking-points-unified-gop-will-win-big

  3. helenk3 Says:

    I brought this forward because I agree with this man


    I am so in agreement with what this man writes.
    country before party always
    country before a con man always

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      Amen to that, Helen!

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      I agree with him too. How totalitarian is it to support some damn politician to the point that believing anyone that doesn’t is a traitor? That’s Seig Heil territory – and I usually hate Nazi references but it is what it is.

      And to me it is also blasphemous to worship any damn politician. What is the matter with people? I support, sometimes strongly, certain candidates. But I don’t think now and never did that one man or woman is going to be a savior. That’s juvenile which is probably why so many act like they do. They refuse to grow up and think for themselves.

      I am beyond disgust with the whole mess.

  4. helenk3 Says:

    how did we go from this to give up your principles and vote for a con man?


    • helenk3 Says:

      The Man In The Glass
      Peter Dale Wimbrow Sr.

      When you get what you want in your struggle for self
      And the world makes you king for a day
      Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
      And see what that man has to say.

      For it isn’t your father, or mother, or wife
      Whose judgment upon you must pass
      The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
      Is the one staring back from the glass.

      He’s the fellow to please – never mind all the rest
      For he’s with you, clear to the end
      And you’ve passed your most difficult, dangerous test
      If the man in the glass is your friend.

      You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
      And get pats on the back as you pass
      But your final reward will be heartache and tears
      If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.

  5. helenk3 Says:

  6. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Oh, good Lord. Et tu, Ryan?? The latest on his meeting with Trump: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/279688-ryan-very-encouraged-by-meeting-with-trump

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      I am not a bit surprised. Being Speaker Ryan is all about the “party” and trying to preserve it somehow. Since most Conservatives don’t like Ryan anyway this is just going to anger them more.

      Like the PUMA movement back in 2008 I suspect the #NeverTrump movement will hold. Like the PUMA movement I suspect in the long run it won’t make much difference.

      Trump is a vulgar buffoon and Hillary a corrupt unethical, woman. Either way the country is screwed.

      Like Daniel Horowitz I feel that the best outcome is Hillary. She’s corrupt it may be the final straw that tears the Republican Party apart in order to build anew. Or to start over as a different party.

      • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

        I agree – if indeed, out of all the more-than-qualified people who could be President, we have these two who most definitely are not – Clinton is, at least, not crazy. Trump is, IMO.

        This whole election is making me ill…

        • kenoshamarge Says:

          I agree. I think that man is either in early stage Alzheimer’s’ or is just plain nuts. The country can survive corrupt, we have for nearly 30 years now. I don’t know we can survive nuts.

      • amarissa Says:

        Ryan was one of my hopes… They have pushed him in the Trump Trap. I agree with you and Rev Amy, Hillary is the lesser of the two evils. I will wait until the conventions for my decision and then I will follow all polls. If there is a slight chance that the Orange might win, I will vote for her for the sake of our country.

        There is no way I will unite behind Trump! He is a sack of malware and cannot become our next President. I am still hoping that somehow they remove him as a candidate, self implodes or that they discover something very big that prevents his candidacy. It is a very sad time for all of us. The saddest thing I am going through is having some of my best friends supporting this clown. I will not vote for a candidate because of Party and that is what a lot of Republicans are doing. It is shameful!

        • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

          Good to hear from you, amarissa. Loved the “sack of malware” comment – that really nails it! I, too, hope that somehow, the delegates will not allow the Trump wing, the one that has cried foul every time Trump didn’t get his way or a win, or whined that the system was rigged even though he was benefiting from it more than anyone else, to succeed in getting the nomination.

          Along the lines of something big coming out, isn’t it interesting that the Trump University Fraud trial has been DELAYED from this summer until AFTER the election?? Uh, yeah – talk about convenient: http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-spared-fraud-trial/2016/05/08/id/727712/

    • helenk3 Says:


      should anyone tell Ryan that many people today still have the Party Unity My Ass mind set. it applies to the republican party just as it did to the democratic party 8 years ago.

      country before party always

  7. helenk3 Says:

  8. helenk3 Says:

    because I think we need this today

    a friend of my grand daughter and her family posted this

    his daughter announced that when she has babies she wants my youngest great grandson as the father.
    they are both 5 years old.
    does that mean i will be a great great grandmom soon?

  9. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Here’s some more good news (besides Helen’s soon-to-be-great, great grandmotherness): a judge ruled FOR the House AGAINST the WH and Obamacare on a major issue: http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/279695-judge-rules-for-house-gop-in-obamacare-suit#

  10. kenoshamarge Says:

  11. kenoshamarge Says:

    Trump Proves Super PACs Can’t Buy Elections, But Free Media Can

    If Democrats actually believe all the things they’re constantly saying about “buying elections,” they would more sensibly start trying to regulate the media, which recently discovered it has powers no Super PAC could ever dream of: the power to make Donald J. Trump a viable candidate for president. Instead, laws they championed that sought to restrict PAC activities specifically excluded the media.

    Perhaps liberals could dream up some kind of regulation to fix this problem: an expenditure cap for political coverage, say, which media outlets could not exceed. Or perhaps Congress can ban television stations from covering campaign events. We don’t want media outlets “buying” elections, do we?


    Or perhaps we could all just turn off the political shows and starve them into submission. But we know that won’t happen. Even with “Target” allowing me into the restrooms with their little girls people are still shopping there. You can’t win with people like that. They have no core – they have no soul and they will not protect their little girls in order to go shopping. Revulsion fills my soul.

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      Sad but true, Marge. Some people are so focused on self they can’t, or won’t, see the bigger picture.

  12. kenoshamarge Says:

  13. helenk3 Says:


    some interesting information on political funding

  14. kenoshamarge Says:

    Strange as you may find it to have me say, there is one thing I do agree with Trump about, it is called the “Republican” Party and not the Conservative Party. There are millions of Conservatives in the Republican Party but not all Republicans are Conservatives.

    Thus there are people running around some blogs saying that Paul Ryan will now not win re-election in November. Bull Plop! Ryan has around 75% approval rating and will win without breaking a sweat.

    No one loathes Trump more than I do. But we do ourselves no good when we become as delusional as Trumpanzees.

    I don’t know but I suspect a decent man like Paul Ryan finds Trump despicable. But because he is the Speaker of The House and a Republican he will do what he must to try to salvage the Republican Party. Some/many Republicans will be glad of that. Conservatives, not so much.

    • helenk3 Says:

      it is not only the “conservatives” that do not want trump. I am very far from a conservative, moderate on most things. conservative on things that do not make good sense, like the bathroom thing, the muslim refugee thing, the overspending thing. there are a lot of us who will always put country before party.

      • kenoshamarge Says:

        No, I didn’t mean that only conservatives are against Trump. I was trying to make the point that many Republicans are not as anti-Ryan as conservatives are. And many of them are here in his district.

        I don’t like some of the things Ryan has done and said. I was enraged by some of them. But I also don’t think he’s the devil incarnate like many conservatives seem to.

        You never know when you might need some of the people you’ve reviled or when they may do something of which you approve. Lindsay Graham has certainly shown that while Rick Perry knuckled under. Newt too but it appears he wants to be VP.
        I am not nearly as conservative as some. My conservatism has always been more of the fiscal type. Until we started hitting issues like men in women’s bathrooms and calling it Civil Rights. It’s just one big mess.

        • kenoshamarge Says:

          Just as Trump is burning bridges and alienating people that may someday need, I think conservatives may be doing the same thing.

          Meanwhile I remain an Independent and can watch the two corrupt parties without having any skin in the game. Other than wishing there was some honesty and integrity somewhere.

          • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

            You and me both, sister. The lack of integrity among so many running this country, and running to represent the people of this country, is beyond maddening.

            And yeah, as an Independent, I am not beholden to either party, but for heaven’s sake, we had so many good people running this time, and we end up with a charlatan and a crook. WTH?

            As for Ryan, I hope he doesn’t completely capitulate, but as you noted, he is the Speaker of the House representing Republicans, so I am sure he is under TREMENDOUS pressure to endorse Trump.

            I just cannot believe that the Establishment RNC would prefer to have someone like TRUMP represent them than someone like CRUZ. That says a whole lot right there…

  15. kenoshamarge Says:

  16. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Yeah, whatever, “unity”: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279675-trump-ryan-signal-unity

  17. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Because this is the kind of man Trump is. It’s a shame this kind of thing doesn’t dissuade his “ardent” supporters: http://therightscoop.com/dissention-in-the-ranks-congressional-trumpers-pissed-that-trump-refused-to-meet-with-them/

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      This won’t change their minds. They’ll just whine like he does. And they should get used to this kind of treatment.

      Obama treated the press like crap and they kept kneeling at his feet.

      Trump will treat both the press and his followers like crap and they will continue to knee at his feet.

      Once you’ve sold your soul you really don’t have any place to go. Decent people sure don’t want you around.

  18. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Obama continues to demonstrate his callous disregard for States’ Rights. Now he is blackmailing public schools over bathrooms. Heaven forbid some young girl has something happen to her – should it, I hope her parents sue everyone from Obama on down. This is just INSANE: http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/05/report-obama-administration-plans-transgendered-public-school-bathroom-directive

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      Obama Threatens Schools: Let Men In the Little Girls’ Room Or Else

      Federal control over public schools has sent them into a death spiral, exemplified in the Obama administration’s new demands. Families need a new education ecosystem free from federal bullying.

      Education Secretary John King:

      “No student should ever have to go through the experience of feeling unwelcome at school or on a college campus,” he said. “We must ensure that our young people know that whoever they are or wherever they come from, they have the opportunity to get a great education in an environment free from discrimination, harassment and violence.”

      All children should be free from discrimination and harassment. Except the at-minimum 99.7 percent of kids who aren’t transgender. They just need to suck it up.


      • kenoshamarge Says:

        What exactly will it take before the people of this country rise up and say enough? This is the kind of crap that gave rise to a mountebank like Trump. Is the cure worse than the disease? Many suspect so. But much more of this will get Trump elected except oops, he’s for this. My bad.

      • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

        You said it, Marge. If they are so worried abt these exceedingly few kids, let them use the TEACHERS bathroom. To put all these girls at risk to appease the Transgendered demands, which are beyond the pale, if you ask me, is just ridiculous. Seriously – people need to stand up already. This is ridiculous. (A county near us just had a big meeting abt it, and decide claiming the law isn’t settled on it, or something like that, and despite opposition, they made the change anyway. WOW.)

        I thought the same thing abt Trump. He won’t do a damn thing abt this either, should he – heaven forfend – get into the WH.

        This country is just nuts. WOW.

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