Minimum Wage Battle *Open Thread*



Democrats love to talk about raising the minimum wage. It makes them look magnanimous, it makes them appear caring, and it doesn’t come out of their pocket. It also gets them votes from people that want more money for what they do. Whether what they do is worth more money or not.

People are always going to want to make more for their labor. It’s human nature and politicians know that. What some people seem unwilling to take into account is that what they are doing isn’t worth more money to an employer. If they cannot make enough to support themselves where they are perhaps it’s time to move on to a better paying job. One that requires more skills and experience.


  According to Forbes:

Changes in wages are secondary factors in the national labor market; demand is, by far, the primary one. The falling unemployment of the 1920s was a result of the booming economy (driven in particular by the automobile industry), not a fall in wages; the Great Depression occurred not because wages suddenly jumped, but due to the fact that investment spending collapsed; World War II reversed this not with lower wages, but with rising demand created by the wartime economy; et cetera, et cetera.

If you haven’t the talent, education or motivation to do anything except ask if a customer wants fries with that why on earth should an employer pay you what is called a “living wage”? It isn’t intended as a wage to support a family. It is intended as an entry level position to train young people to get up, go to work, follow directions to do a task and take home a paycheck for their labor. Basic lessons to learn to enter the work place. Often, usually for young people that are not  through with their education. An education that should prepare them for jobs that pay more and demand more.

Some how along the way the whole concept of entry level seems to have been lost. Now Fast Food Workers want to make enough money to raise a family. And Fast Food Employers say welcome to the $12.00 burger.


It has been proved time after time that raising the minimum wage reduces employment and stops expansion. The very expansion that would lead to more jobs. If the left gets their way, and if the Fast Food Workers, among others, get their way, the summer jobs for teenagers will in time disappear. No employer is going to pay big bucks for some kid to learn on the job. They just won’t. If they have to pay a “living wage” they will hire people with more skills and more experience.

According to the great Thomas Sowell:

A survey of American economists found that 90 percent of them regarded minimum wage laws as increasing the rate of unemployment among low-skilled workers. Inexperience is often the problem. Only about two percent of Americans over the age of 24 earned the minimum wage.

Milton Friedman explained it all quite simply a long time ago: (Look how young Phil Donahue was.)

Quite honestly I don’t think the Democrats give a rat’s behind about people earning minimum wage. What they care about is getting the vote of the people earning minimum wage. So minimum wage is just one more of their benevolent ideas. And another one they don’t have to pay for. We do. And any that oppose their bighearted ideas are selfish meanies that don’t want to help poor people. You would think that such silly arguments wouldn’t work well with adults. You would be wrong.

Although I am a long way from thinking the Republicans are fiscal conservatives, as I once naively believed, the have been consistent in their opposition to raising the minimum wage and it’s negative effects on the economy. Until Don the Con came along. But who knows, he may be against it tomorrow depending on what all those voices in his head have to say.

I found that the following commentary from Diana Furchtgott-Roth  from a couple of years ago made some very good points against raising the minimum wage. The fact that the New York Times is vehemently for also tends to color my opinion. They almost always seem to be for what I am against. This issue is no different.

The Real Cost of Raising the Minimum Wage

If raising the minimum wage were cost-free, why stop at $10 or $15 an hour? Why not go straight to $24 an hour, the average hourly wage? That might be considered fair, because no one would have to earn less than average.

The answer, of course, is because some people are displaced at any minimum wage. It is obvious to the general public that increasing the minimum wage to $24 an hour would displace workers. It is less obvious when amounts are smaller. But when the minimum wage is raised, employers hire higher-skilled people, or switch to different forms of technology, such as placing orders through touchscreens.

I can’t and don’t pretend to be some kind of an expert on raising the minimum wage. I do believe what I’ve read and results that have been seen. People I respect are adamantly against raising the minimum wage. People for whom I have absolutely NO respect are adamantly for raising the minimum wage. That makes it easier for me to make up my mind what I believe.

We all have to decide what we believe about this issue. A new minimum wage means that the hourly wage for my husband will rise substantially. Can’t have people who have been working somewhere for many years and have seniority making less than new hires. Thus the cost of running the business goes up considerably. That has meant, in the past where my husband works, that part of the cost is passed on to the customer, and ultimately to you and I, and fewer workers are expected to do the work.

We prefer merit raises. It means more to the ego and it costs us less in the long run. That’s where I stand – how about you?


22 Responses to “Minimum Wage Battle *Open Thread*”

  1. helenk3 Says:

    do not think this will cost $15 an hour

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      Technology replaces workers at a frightening pace. People insisting on higher wages than the workplace can stand only hasten it.

      I don’t understand how this food printing thing works. But then I never understood more than the basic concept my micro wave and I use it every day. I game to try it.

  2. kenoshamarge Says:

    Conservatism’s Sad and Ugly Transformation into Trumpism

    If elected, Trump would destroy conservatism, the only solution to our country’s woes.

    Steve Deace considered this Shapiro article so good he read in in it’s entirety on his show. Quite a tribute.

  3. kenoshamarge Says:

  4. helenk3 Says:

    only in Massachusetts

  5. helenk3 Says:

  6. helenk3 Says:

    casinos in USA are not in good shape right now due to the economy. Many people no longer have the money to play.

  7. helenk3 Says:

    do politicians understand irony?

  8. kenoshamarge Says:

  9. kenoshamarge Says:

    Border Patrol Website Tells Illegals in Spanish Where They Can Find Sanctuary From Border Patrol

    In Ray Bradbury’s excellent Fahrenheit 451, a dystopian tale of a hypertrophied government that has turned against its people, firemen don’t put out fires; they start them. Similarly, in the USSA the Border Patrol advises those invading the country illegally on how to avoid apprehension:

    Immigrants [or terrorists] who want to enter the U.S. illegally can learn how and where to avoid the Border Patrol from an advisory on the agency’s own website, which critics say is evidence of the Obama administration’s “schizophrenic” approach to enforcement.

  10. kenoshamarge Says:

    Libertarian VP Candidate William Weld Says Trump Has a Screw Loose

    I like Weld for this if nothing else. No spin, no nuance, just the truth. Except I think his “loose screw” has fallen completely out.

    • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

      Wasn’t that something?? I thought it was great that he flat out said that. And he is RIGHT!! 🙂

  11. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    I have been having a lengthy discussion with an old friend abt the minimum wage. Shockingly, he bought into all of the Bernie Sanders crap though he admitted a while back that he was actually mad at HIMSELF for where he has ended up in life (a prison guard). I asked him why he thought others should have to pay more because of decisions HE made. He didn’t really respond to that, nor did he respond to how much more of Suzy’s paycheck he thought he was entitled to get. Funny how that works, huh?

    Anyway, this past week, we got into it abt the minimum wage. He was INSISTENT that he had researched this, and it was working out GREAT in places like Seattle. Uh, yeah, NO – the increased wage has NOT worked out great in Seattle as this WaPo article indicates:

    The bottom line is that this push for raising the minimum wage so much hurts the very people those who push for it claim to want to help. Hours are cut, jobs are not filled, and more automation in the industries like fast food restaurants are the result.

    Oh – my friend took umbrage by me relating all of this to Sanders. I told him that Sanders INSISTED that a $15 min. wage be part of the Dem. platform, but I guess that pesky fact meant nothing to him just like the rest of the facts I provided (like the ones you have above).

    The thing is this: these are entry level jobs. They are not meant to be career positions. People are meant to work hard, learn skills and move up/on to other jobs. To pay unskilled workers the same as skilled workers is just foolish, never mind economically unsustainable…

    GREAT post!!

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      One thing I’ve learned is that people always look for someone else to blame. Far too many of us want someone else to pay for the choices we made in life.

      I started my work career as a car hop. Remember them? Should I have expected that to pay my way for the rest of my life? I aspired to a lot more. I grew and learned and I “chose” to be a Secretary/Administrative Assistant for the better part of my life. I liked the work. It wasn’t the kind of life in a cubicle many experience today. But it also didn’t always come with benefits and none of the jobs I held had a pension.

      Who do I blame for that? I did what I liked and wanted to do and when the petty office politics bored and annoyed me beyond my ability to endure I drove out to a Truck Stop on the interstate and applied, and was hired as a waitress.

      Oh the smug looks from my co-workers at the office as I packed up. Imagine that snotty Marge descending to being a “mere” waitress. Funny thing is, I made more as a waitress than in the office – truck drivers liked my sass and that’s where I met Lou. So I made, for me, the right choices and I blame no one and want no hand outs from anyone. I stood on my own two feet and I like where I landed.

      Not a whole lot of money, but a whole lot of love and sharing and caring. I am content.

      • Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

        OHMYGOSH – I love that story of how you met Lou, Marge! That is FANTASTIC! I bet those truckers did love your sass. And I am not at ALL surprised that you made more there than working as a secretary/Admin. Ass’t.

        To digress for a moment, people now do not realize how important the work of a secretary was to the running of a business. My great aunt was one of a small group of women who got National Secretaries Day to come into being. She went to Secretaries School and everything. She ended up working for a Federal Judge in Baltimore for decades. Her executor, an attorney who went to UVA Law some time ago said that the Judge for whom Aunt June worked was a GIANT in the legal field, and they studies his decisions at UVA. Aunt June’s work there was vital to the Judge, no doubt abt it, and he treated her very well.

        But there is not a thing wrong in all this world with being a waitress! I am sure Lou agrees! 😀

        You are so right though abt people wanting to blame someone else for their lot in life. I was stunned when my old friend started in on all of this Sanders stuff. But it was when he started playing the victim card of all things that I just SMH. Wow…

  12. Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Says:

    Excellent piece by Ben Shapiro:

    Oh, and Mike Pence hinted that Trump will endorse Democrats in key Senate races:

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      Trumps biggest problem is Trump. They can blame game all they want – it’s just the truth. Next to Trump his legion of nasty, troglodyte followers make enemies wherever they go. Trump and Trumpanzees cause their own problems – they just aren’t smart enough, or honest enough to understand that.

      I’m done with the “lesser of two evils” nonsense. The lesser is still evil and has brought us to this choice. I’m voting for Johnson/Weld.

      I saw part of their Townhall with Anderson Cooper and they seem the sanest pair in the running.

    • kenoshamarge Says:

      If Trump wants to alienate everyone except his cadre of cultists he should go ahead and endorse some Democrats. I’m sure they’ll love him endorsing some gun grabbing Democrat in Arizona. He’s just nuts enough to do it.

  13. kenoshamarge Says:

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